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NCDD-DISCUSSION  February 2010, Week 4

NCDD-DISCUSSION February 2010, Week 4

Subject:

SYNCHRONOUS vs ASYNCHRONOUS DIALOG

From:

"Laurence J. Victor" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Laurence J. Victor

Date:

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:14:54 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (125 lines)

Howard, I am pleased to see you present a positive view towards online 
dialog.  IMHO there are many types and levels of dialog needed today 
which requires a synergy of many modes. The "war" between f2f vs online 
keeps me lucking on NCDD and not willing to be a full member.

People vary greatly in their ability to "read" non verbal signals and in 
their ability to influence others using such signals. From my experience 
f2f, even facilitated, is dominated by right-brain emotional needs of 
participants.  Some things can be accomplished by f2f facilitated 
dialog, but much of what NCDD aspires to cannot.  The alternative is not 
a simplistic, at your own computer station participating in email 
exchanges or blogging - or synchronous texting. Jaron Lanier ("father" 
of Virtual Reality) takes to task most contemporary online interactivity 
in his new book: You Are Not A Gadget: A Manifesto.

If we want more information, beyond the verbal code, we might begin to 
develop biofeedback recording and displays, which we can all be trained 
to read, where "reading" non verbal signals (facial, gesture, 
intonation) is not easily learned. Such recorded biofeedback could 
accompany a composition distributed asynchronously. We need also to 
study the implications of mirror neuron systems for f2f dialog and the 
effects of micro-movements.

There is great power in mutual entrainment, a dance of creative minds, 
during synchronous interaction. This is what I believe is at the core of 
Bohmian Dialog, but which Bohm himself seemed not to achieve. Such 
sessions are periods of highest enjoyment for me.  And, I am able to 
achieve these during online, synchronous video dialog.

Technologies for better asynchronous dialog are slow in development. 
Only a few applications permit point comments to parts of longer 
documents - leading most online communicators responding with 
generalities. Short video sequences (monologues or dialogs) recorded can 
become components of a multi-media hyperweb.  We need tools to attach a 
comment (text, audio or video) at a point in a video display. YouTube 
has a very primitive version of this.

Many of the problems with online dialog were much more explicit in the 
1980s than today.  Then there were "wars" between those insisting on 
brief messages (that had the full sense of speech dialog) and those who 
posted longer documents (that were more as composed written text). 
Online forums couldn't handle both styles.  Around 1990, just as the 
forum people, who fully recognized the need of moderators, were making 
progress the commercialization of The Internet exploded and email (which 
was dying) resurrected to become the dominant mode.  This mode 
continues, with variation, in blogs and their comments and in social 
network exchanges and twitter. Many longer documents are posted online, 
but they seldom lead to relevant dialog. Almost two decades have been lost.

IMHO the linear time sequence exchanges for f2f dialog severely limit 
the scope and complexity of the issue or topic. Each person needs some 
minimum time to express, before others do so. Others are supposed to 
"listen". The wide individual differences in memory handicap some. If 
you attend too closely to the non-verbal you often miss subtly in the 
verbal message. Some sentences require repetition and study for 
comprehension - and individual differences are very important here.

What one hears is not all that is important. How one interprets what one 
hears cannot be fully separated from perception. Yet, to continue 
listening competes with one's attempt to interpret a prior expression.  
One should not rehearse what they will say when their turn comes, but it 
is grossly unrealistic to expect that we are simple encoders & decoders.

Decades ago I drew up specifications for a system to record of dialog, 
where one could electronically mark the recording as to importance to 
you. Later, any portion of the dialog could be replayed, stopped at the 
marks, and the dialog branch. No one was interested.

Kuhn's early concept of "paradigm" was a "traditional practice" that got 
embedded with a new prespective, and continued to constrain the 
evolution of the perspective.  The early shift in use of the term 
"paradigm" to represent a new perspective masked Kuhn's useful 
distinction (and Kuhn, himself, bought into this confusion).  The 
traditional practice of f2f dialog is such a limiting paradigm. Often 
there are vested interests behind the preservation of paradigms.

I speculate that many push f2f dialog (over online) because they 
(usually unconsciously) are able to dominate such dialog. This was clear 
to me years ago when the Chancellor of my college opposed the use of 
online communication because "One could be more influential in f2f 
meetings."

What I desire is R&D into a viable synergy between synchronous and 
asynchronous interactivity, which I have abbreviated RT/DT Synergy: 
RealTime and DelayedTime. With RT capable of being facilitated online. 
An important application of this would be for professional conferences, 
where participants in the RT sessions make NO presentations. All such 
basic information is available online to be studied prior to the RT 
sessions. There is absolutely no rationale for many people to sit in an 
auditorium to listen passively to a presentation, which are now often 
mostly pre-composed visuals.

I am normally a lurker here, but this issue promoted me to make these 
few comments. I welcome your comments.

Larry Victor


On 2/22/2010 11:10 AM, Howard Ward wrote:
> Hello Ray - I expressed a view contrary to this suggestion a few years ago in an online group, and the reaction was like a swarm of hornets. So I sense a degree of hesitancy in making the following suggestions.
>
> If the 'intent' of a dialogue is to explore the validity of some suggestion, which then requires that we take a clear look at the actual nature of the reality that's being 'pointed to', then "body language signals" are often a 'distraction' away from this exploration.
>
> The body language gives us a sense of how a person 'feels' about the suggested issue. It doesn't tell us about 'the actual nature of the reality being explored', unless the exploration is about - How do people 'feel' about some issue.
>
> Body language is great for helping us understand how someone is feeling, and I don't wish to diminish the importance of this in any way. But how someone feels is not the same thing as looking at the nature of some aspect of life.
>
> For example, if we were looking at something like: Does preventative health care save lives? To determine whether this is true or not, we would want to 'explore the facts'. The body language would simply tell us about how a person 'feels about this issue', but that's not the same as looking 'at the actual issue'. Focusing on the body language, I suggest, tends to take the attention away from looking at the issue being explored.
>
> The body language does tell you how people feel about what you are saying, which can help one look for ways to communicate that won't repel others, but that's not the same as looking at the nature of something. And often people will verbally tell you they are repelled.
>
> Body language basically tells us whether someone is 'receptive, neutral, or repelled' by what they are hearing.
>
> Again, I'm not suggesting that body language doesn't provide useful information. What I'm suggesting is that it tells us more about 'reactions' than it does about the actual nature of something we might be trying to see more clearly. And if the intent is indeed to explore some aspect of reality, then focusing on body language is generally a distraction away from the reality being explored.
>
> Let me put it another way: If we were able to remove 'ego' from our explorations, do you think the exploration would be more effective, or less effective? I know that's a hypothetical, but I suggest that it's related to 'body language'.
>
> Regards - Howard
>    
>

---

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