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NCDD-DISCUSSION  March 2008, Week 4

NCDD-DISCUSSION March 2008, Week 4

Subject:

Re: DemocracySpace post on Obama's speech

From:

Rogier Gregoire <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Rogier Gregoire <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:15:20 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (228 lines)

Dear Saundra,

I enthusiastically approve of what you have said and from the vantage  
point of an elder (grandfather in my 7th decade) I want to deny that  
the hatred and distrust trickles down simply from one generation to  
another. While there is always a bit of truth in the statement it is  
not the primary or main conduit for racism in America.

American racism is buried in its institutions. The justice system and  
the courts, our schools and the sectarian energy in our religions all  
contain, preserve and perpetuate racism from one generation to  
another. The schools are a preeminent force in teaching our children  
to distrust and despise the small differences that constitute  
ethnicity, gender, ability and the biological fiction of race, while  
promoting a social and cultural deception of racism. Like the  
machines of an industrial society we are engineered to accept  
loneliness, isolation and greed as natural. Sanity is equated with  
competition. We have forgotten how to talk with one another openly  
and with a sense of generosity.

Dialogue, which allows and supports our ability to inquire (not  
simply ask questions) as to the nature of ourselves and each other.  
Dialogue promotes a sense of our common identity while establishing  
our exquisite uniqueness as divine. We, who do this work, have an  
obligation to promote this extraordinary generative conversation in  
the society not simply towards consensus but towards the broader  
tolerance for diversity and inclusion (a minority report).

Senator Obama (my president) has asked us not to put race behind us  
but to put it in front of us. Talk about it, look at it, investigate  
our assumptions about it and accept the past as well as the  
responsibility for the future.

As a 70 year old black man I am trying to heal from the decades of  
abuse and denial that now poorly serves my effort to be free from the  
natural hatred that abuse creates. Obama asks me to put this down in  
myself and deny it in our institutions, both difficult to do but  
unavoidable.
Help me Sandra, your clear bright vision is what we need.

Rogier Gregoire Ed.D.
Ronin

On Mar 20, 2008, at 4:17 PM, saundra.boyd wrote:

> I do so applaud Senator Obama for reminding us we are not by any  
> stretch of the imagination over racism. I wish he would tell us how  
> to have this conversation without all the rancor.
>
> I share Michelle Obama's pride over the words and vision of Barack  
> Obama and the degree to which he has inspired so very many people  
> to become involved in politics who had largely given up on the  
> system.  Like her I have not had that pride in America in a very  
> long time.  And the shrill invective of so many, excuse the  
> expression, white boys reporting on Senator Obama's relation with  
> his Reverend (thank you David Gergen for maintaining your sanity  
> and not becoming defensive over this issue; can we impeach John  
> Anderson on CNN?) has put a serious dent in that pride.  I cannot  
> even listen to Hannity & Colmes more than 30 seconds without  
> wanting to displace my rage and destroy the TV!  Thank you Charlie  
> Rose and Tavis Smiley for helping maintain my sanity!
>
> What is wrong with us--ALL OF US?  Have the white guys never heard  
> so-called white ministers railing against everyone but themselves?   
> Do not the KKK members call themselves christian? Did they not  
> rewrite the bible into a vengeful, hateful diatribe?  Have so- 
> called white reporters no awareness of what so-called black folks  
> have gone through in this country? Have they no empathy at all that  
> would allow them to realize people who were adults in the 1960's  
> have to have been deeeeeeply wounded by the inhumanity they  
> survived with their humanity intact for the most part?  How can we  
> object to their being angry even yet?  How many "whites" in the  
> South are still re-fighting the civil war with their sense of  
> wounded pride?  WE ARE ALL WALKING WOUNDED AFTER ALL THESE  
> GENERATIONS OF PAIN THAT JUST TRICKLES DOWN FROM ELDERS TO YOUNG- 
> UNS IF SOMETHING IS NOT DONE TO HEAL IT.
>
> humans don't heal all that quick from outrage--that's why we all  
> need to GO AND TO KEEP GOING to Dialogue:Racism in the hopes of  
> getting over it!  To find the latest session, go to  
> www.centerhealingracism.org  It is the only help with coping with  
> this insanity I know of and the way we should carry out the  
> dialogue Senator Obama is reminding us we NEED to be having!!!!!
>
> Sandy
>
> Saundra Y. Boyd, Ph.D.
> Director of Service Learning
> Psychology Professor
> 3214 Austin, EDC A231
> Houston, TX 77004
> 713-718-6244
> FAX 713-718-5350
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NCDD Discussion List on behalf of Rogier Gregoire
> Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 5:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [NCDD-DISCUSSION] DemocracySpace post on Obama's speech
>
> I can't help but respond to a question like "what does it all mean?"
> Followed by a long essay that is one notch above absolute nihilism.
> So without trying to answer either question seeing the first as
> sublime and the second as ridiculous let me provide my own insight
> into the issues before this community that are held in the Obama
> speech. First of all is campaign is about the power of the collective
> energy of the polity not the existing political dynamic that seems to
> frame the American experience in the values of industrialism rather
> than the ideals of democracy. Obama (I believe ) is asking us to
> regain our control over the political machinery that rules our lives
> (his mention of corporate greed seems to have been missed by everyone
> critic and champion alike) so that collectively we can improve our
> own lives rather than beg for relief.
>
> I personally agree that our institutions are corrupt and
> dysfunctional but we are not. Black people have been asking white
> people to honor the responsibility of their having control of the
> social machinery for hundreds of years (ever since they decided that
> we (black people) were only 3/5's of a human being in the
> constitution. That means that white people believed that we were less
> than human. And you have not moved your institutions in the direction
> that most of you (I assume) believe is true that we are all equal and
> deserve equal treatment under the law and within our institutions.
>
> Barack is asking us to move on. to confront racism and the injustices
> that no one wants to talk about. Out of these inequities and under
> the oppressive control of corporate America the schools are failing
> the criminal justice system has become the most brutal in the world
> and cultural depression, isolation and the resulting loneliness that
> has made us the "prozac nation" while the wealth of the nation is
> being syphoned from the poor to the rich steadily. Aww! I do go on,
> so forgive. Let me provide a link to Tim Wise who said it better than
> I can. I ask you to read it before you try and answer the question
> What does it all mean?
>
> With an open heart and ears to match
>
> Rogier Gregoire
>
> http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/NationalLies.htm
> On Mar 19, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Richard Moore wrote:
>
>>
>> He does know how to say the right things. But what does it all
>> mean?  Here's another view:
>> FOOD, FUEL, AND FASCISM: THEIR ELECTION OR YOUR LIFE?By Carolyn Baker
>>
>> URL:
>> http://carolynbaker.net/site/
>> index2.phpoption=com_content&task=view&id=379&pop=1&page=0
>>
>> ---
>>
>> On 19 Mar 2008, at 16:36, Julie Fanselow wrote:
>>
>>> Hello friends,
>>>
>>> I am in Washington, D.C., at the Take Back America conference (on
>>> my own time, not for Everyday Democracy). Yesterday, I had the
>>> transcendent experience of watching part of Obama's speech with a
>>> multiracial group of fellow activists just before the start of a
>>> "Race Matters" program. Here's my blog post about it:
>>>
>>> http://democracyspace.typepad.com/democracyspaceorg/2008/03/obama-
>>> speaks-on.html
>>>
>>> To me, this was perhaps Obama's key message yesterday, and it
>>> speaks deeply to work we all do:
>>>
>>> "The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues
>>> that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the
>>> complexities of race in this country that we've never really
>>> worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect.
>>> And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective
>>> corners, we will never be able to come together and solve
>>> challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find
>>> good jobs for every American."
>>>
>>> Can I get an amen? Can I get it on the blog?
>>>
>>> http://democracyspace.typepad.com/democracyspaceorg/2008/03/obama-
>>> speaks-on.html
>>>
>>> Have a great day .... Julie
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> Julie Fanselow
>>> Writer ~ online organizer
>>> Everyday Democracy
>>> (Formerly the Study Circles Resource Center)
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> (208) 859-9006
>>> Boise, Idaho (Mountain Time)
>>>
>>> Check out our blog at http://www.democracyspace.org
>>> Save the date for our national meeting
>>> "Making Every Voice Matter"
>>>  June 12-14, 2008 in Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>> ---
>> NCDD's discussion and announcement lists are generously provided by
>> L-Soft ( www.lsoft.com ) and are powered by L-Soft's LISTSERV
>> mailing list management software ( www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-
>> powered.html ). Learn more about NCDD's email lists in the
>> community section of the NCDD website ( www.thataway.org/community/
>> lists/ ).
>>
>
>
> ---
>
> NCDD's discussion and announcement lists are generously provided by  
> L-Soft ( www.lsoft.com ) and are powered by L-Soft's LISTSERV  
> mailing list management software ( www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV- 
> powered.html ).  Learn more about NCDD's email lists in the  
> community section of the NCDD website ( www.thataway.org/community/ 
> lists/ ).
>

---

NCDD's discussion and announcement lists are generously provided by L-Soft ( www.lsoft.com ) and are powered by L-Soft's LISTSERV mailing list management software ( www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html ).  Learn more about NCDD's email lists in the community section of the NCDD website ( www.thataway.org/community/lists/ ).

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