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NCDD-DISCUSSION  September 2007, Week 1

NCDD-DISCUSSION September 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Infrastructure discussion

From:

Rogier Gregoire <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Rogier Gregoire <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 1 Sep 2007 04:16:19 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

In response to Jim's post I have this comment to make on dialogue.  
That for me, dialogue does not have, and is only marginally connected  
with, any of the terms or phrases that Jim has identified including  
the equally ambiguous term ""choice creation" or any other form of  
"thinking or thought." The difference that I hold is between all of  
those terms and my own transformation and/or enlightenment.  Further  
more, going into the subtle differences between enlightenment and  
transformation will not move the center of that proposition closer to  
"choice creation" or any of the thought based or intellectually  
formed constructs Jim has identified. For me Dialogue is a process  
that I embrace for the transformational and enlightening  
possibilities and in that respect is an end in itself. I suspect that  
is where Jim and I (metaphorically) part company. In the realm of  
thought and thought-based processes he seems to have found something  
interesting and I will explore Jim's ideas to see where they go, but  
"choice creation" is so imbedded in duality as a premise that it seem  
unlikely to add to either my enlightenment or the on-going  
transformation of my life, but who knows? I try to remain open to  
what is in front of me, and some things that are behind me as well.

All the best Jim.

Rogier Gregoire
On Aug 31, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Jim Rough wrote:

> Thanks to Landon and Bill for describing Thunder City and to all of  
> you for this enlivening conversation ... and to Sandy for throwing  
> out the issue of whether  or not changes are needed in the framework.
>
> I believe that THE KEY quality of thinking, which is essential for  
> us as a society to address and solve our most important issues  
> is ... where all of us face these issues creatively and  
> collaboratively seeking breakthrough answers that work for  
> everyone. I call this process of thinking "choice-creating" because  
> neither the word "dialogue" nor "deliberation" apply. Nor do the  
> terms "problem-solving,"  "creative problem-solving,"  
> "negotiation," "consensus-building," etc. etc. It's not a  
> combination of dialogue and deliberation either. It's a separate  
> form of thinking, what Landon described in his second example with  
> Ida Mae, where a new unanimous choice just emerged. I believe that  
> the invisibility of this quality of thinking is curious, but that  
> it will become more and more visible as the crisis of our current  
> situation becomes more pressing.
>
> If it is somehow possible to facilitate all of us to engage one  
> another in the spirit of Choice-creating, where we address our  
> environmental issue and the distribution of wealth and our health  
> care dilemma, etc. and seek unanimous answers that work for  
> everyone, then we can transform our system and it's problems  
> safely. Also, this would be a new form of democracy, a new system  
> of collective thinking.
>
> I think the centrality of Choice-creating as a form of talking and  
> thinking  is going to become obvious in the next 5 to 10 years. On  
> one hand it's already obvious. I gave a talk and demonstration to  
> 60 faculty at a high school and middle school yesterday. No one  
> there doubts it. Many are afraid of it and the pushback from the  
> community if they start to think this way and  the system starts to  
> change. But they don't doubt that it is essential and that they can  
> do it.
>
> Choice-creating is a natural response in a crisis. In fact, many  
> people are waiting for our situation to become so bad, for the  
> crisis of our society to become so pressing, that we naturally  
> start working together creatively to come up with something new  
> that works for all. Why wait?
>
> Many people live in a way that their creative capabilities are  
> suppressed and denied altogether. They don't address impossible-to- 
> solve issues because they don't have a process where creativity can  
> arise. I think this is because of previous experience where  
> creativity has been combined with judgment. If you are creative and  
> you feel judged it can be devastating. Many people don't recover,  
> for instance, from that early kindergarten teacher who told them  
> they'll never be an artist.
>
> As many of you seem to be saying, a powerful approach to releasing  
> some creativity is what I call the "run and jump" strategy ...  
> where you do dialogue first, which is creative and non-judgmental,  
> and then do deliberation to come up with decisions. Or you might  
> engage in brainstorming for a while ... no judgment allowed. Then  
> you select the best idea. Or you spend time before your meetings  
> building trust ... and then you meet to make group decisions.
>
> But to achieve a transformation of our system so that we can solve  
> the issues we face as a whole, we need a robust form of creative  
> thinking that is heartfelt, where all participate and there is no  
> judgment .... period. "Decisions" (we call them "of courses")  
> evolve. They aren't "made." Or, they are achieved via breakthroughs.
>
> I understand that many people don't yet see a need for this "choice- 
> creating" category of thinking. But it's coming. I think it would  
> be a real shame to pretend that it isn't there or that it fits into  
> one of the existing categories.
>
> I've been exploring the topic of "Choice-creating" for a number of  
> years now. Dynamic Facilitation is oriented to assuring choice- 
> creating for small groups. That's why it's tough to fit it into  
> categories like "facilitation" or "dialogue" or "deliberation." The  
> Wisdom Council process is a strategy for extending the range of  
> Dynamic Facilitation, so that we can facilitate large systems of  
> people to engage one another in Choice-creating, like all the  
> citizens of  Thunder City.
>
> y web page on Choice-creating is at http://www.tobe.net/topics/ 
> choice.html. It has a chart comparing dialogue, deliberation and  
> choice-creating, a new 30 minute audio interview  on the topic, and  
> a number of articles. I particularly recommend the one on  
> "Transforming the Public Conversation."
>
> 	Jim
>
>
> -- 
> Jim Rough
>  Jim Rough & Associates, Inc. | 360-385-7118 http:// 
> www.DynamicFacilitation.com
> President | Center for Wise Democracy  | http://www.WiseDemocracy.org
> Author | Society's Breakthrough: Releasing Essential Wisdom and  
> Virtue in All the People | http://www.societysbreakthrough.com
>
> Upcoming events . . .
>
> Dynamic Facilitation Skills Seminar, Sept 25-27, Port Townsend WA
> KEYNOTE and WC Demonstration: The Great Turning... http:// 
> www.lesley.edu/gsass/audubon/greatturning_council.html
> KEYNOTE: Earth Intelligence & Transpartisan Policy Summit, Dec  
> 17-19 (new date), Hyatt Fair Lakes, Washington, D.C http:// 
> www.oss.net/dynamaster/file_archive/070706/ 
> c6dcc923c53d6364c11c733c636d8e7a/Public%20Intelligence%20and% 
> 20Policy%20Summit%20ad%2d2.pdf

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