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NCDD-DISCUSSION  August 2007, Week 5

NCDD-DISCUSSION August 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: The "conservatives" question

From:

Steven M <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Steven M <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:24:31 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (238 lines)

I appreciate and understand your question. However, what exactly is
conservatism? Does it mean upholding traditional values, as a way to
uplift society and restore communities? People like that are already a
part of our discussions in various places. On the other hand, does it
mean constantly finding ways to denigrate the ability of government to
do anything good or positive? People like that would probably never
join our discussions, no matter what we do. the same goes for people
who believe politics is a form of cultural warfare, instead of looking
for the best ways to find mutual compromise in order to include at
least some cultural and spirtual values in curriculum, etc. So that's
my thoughts on that. Part of the problem here is that it can be hard to
know exactly where the core of conservatism is; not sure they
themselves always know. some sincerely see conservatism as a way to
truly tackle the problems of poverty, social fabric, and as a way to
make America a cohesive society. While others seem to see it simply as
a way to rationalize complete inaction by the government, or some sort
of variation on that. i mean no disrespect here to those identifying
themselves as within that group; I merely mean to allude to a few
different poles of opinion, all of which paly some validity. 

By the way liberals can just as easily be depicted as occupy a range of
positions between being utterly impractical extremists, and being
somewhat well-intentioned with some valid working concepts for
uplifting and improving society. So I am willing to admit that too. 

By the way, I greatly enjoyed hearing your open and welcoming approach
to this matter. I also really enjoyed the humorous parts of your emails
in regards to the world-view of certain political...shall we say,
segments. thanks. see you. 

Steve 

--- Daniel Horsey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> NOooooo!! Not the "conservatives" question!!
> 
> Deep listening and and trust and appreciation, mutual acceptance born
>  
> of co-creation, joining together instead of inviting into, etc.;  
> surely most living things like that stuff.
> 
> Maybe we could pair our puzzle with its reverse. The conservatives in
>  
> their lairs, sipping cognac, lighting cigars with dollar bills,  
> summoning James to bring another roasted Democrat on a spit,  
> discussing the Ten Commandments, must sometimes turn to one another  
> and wonder, "Why is it so challenging to get liberals involved in  
> this community, and to get them to the table?"
> 
> Or maybe NCDD, with its newfound wealth sprung from membership fees, 
> 
> would fund a research project, a kind of scavenger hunt: The first of
>  
> us to capture a live conservative and drag him (him, of course) to  
> our presence, would win that precious prize, the right to ask the  
> ultimate question  Why?! Why does your kind despise us? Why?!? The  
> answer, along with recommendations for future research, would be  
> publishable and form the basis for a long-term federally funded  
> project, though probably not until after the next election.
> 
> 
> Last year I produced a small storytelling event around the war in  
> Iraq. Seven people told short (10  12-minute) stories about their  
> personal experiences, we and the small audience talked formally a  
> bit, we had some cheese and fruit, and that was it. A few days later 
> 
> I checked in with the storytellers about their experience. A couple  
> of approximate quotes:
> 
> "Near the end, I was standing, talking with P---, and I thought to  
> myself, 'Oh my god! Here I am, talking with a LIBERAL, and we're not 
> 
> shouting at each other!!' It was pretty amazing."
> 
> "Y'know, I haven't had any use for soldiers at least since the 60s,  
> except to think that I wish they didn't exist. But J--- (who told his
>  
> story in full uniform), he seemed like a pretty good guy. I wouldn't 
> 
> mind having lunch with him sometime."
> 
> We probably all have had similar transcendent experiences, and we  
> probably all would enjoy experiencing more of them.
> 
> 
> When kids in a classroom are ignoring their teacher, I tend to think 
> 
> the teacher's probably not very interesting, and that shushing the  
> kids probably won't work.
> 
> Similarly, when an audience isn't paying attention, I suspect the  
> performer (me, all too often) is missing the mark.
> 
> So when we don't get full participation in our processes, maybe it's 
> 
> just me, but I wonder about us.
> 
> 
> Kind of like this post. If it's more offensive and lengthy than  
> entertaining or engaging, I apologize for communicating poorly.
> 
> 
> Daniel Horsey  303/503-1645
> [log in to unmask]
> 
>        Creative Risk
>            Dramatic Action
> ____________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Sandy Heierbacher wrote:
> 
> > I suppose it's about time for me to weigh in on this great  
> > conversation, although I admit I haven't been able to quite keep up
>  
> > with all of it!
> >
> > I've been thinking that a little history about NCDD might be  
> > helpful with some aspects of this discussion, so I'll start at the 
> 
> > beginning...
> >
> > Back in 2001, myself and a small group of others (Jim Snow from  
> > GMU's ICAR program, Cricket White from Hope in the Cities, and  
> > Maggie Potapchuk and Mike Wenger from NABRE were some of the more  
> > active folks in the group as I recall - especially Jim) began  
> > talking about organizing a conference that would bring dialogue  
> > practitioners together to experience each other's methods and meet 
> 
> > our colleagues in the field.  Most of us in this initial small  
> > group were interested/involved in dialogues on race, and we talked 
> 
> > about a "Conference on Dialogue" and even a (yick) "Dialogue on  
> > Dialogue."
> >
> > As we grew larger and kept talking, many of us came to realize that
>  
> > dialogue - whether focused on relations between groups or any  
> > number of other "wicked problems" - often went hand-in-hand with  
> > deliberation, especially when a decision needed to be made or  
> > action needed to be taken.  At the same time, we noticed that many 
> 
> > organizations, practitioners, and researchers that focused on  
> > deliberation seemed to misunderstand the importance of dialogue.   
> > And vice versa - dialogue folks didn't always seem to grasp the  
> > importance of deliberation.  But there were some organizations and 
> 
> > practitioners - like those at the Study Circles Resource Center -  
> > who seemed to be very strongly making the case for dialogue and  
> > deliberation to be practiced in tandem (read their article on  
> > "deliberative dialogue" at www.thataway.org/exchange/files/docs/ 
> > DD_Expand.pdf), and their successful results spoke for themselves. 
>  
> > You can also read NCDD's take on the relationship between dialogue 
> 
> > and deliberation at http://thataway.org/index.php/?page_id=713.
> >
> > So, we felt that holding a "National Conference on Dialogue _and_  
> > Deliberation" was a good idea, and hoped the first conference, in  
> > October 2002, would start to create a community of innovators who  
> > could learn from the strengths and challenges of each other's work 
> 
> > and each other's approaches.  We have built a wonderfully diverse  
> > community of practice over the years, and I continue to be  
> > awestruck by the intelligence, caring and hope that this community 
> 
> > embodies.
> >
> > At the same time, we have continually struggled with a number of  
> > issues that have come up again and again (including in this  
> > conversation).  New people are always joining the Coalition and  
> > older members have different levels of involvement at different  
> > times, so I see conversations repeating themselves - and they  
> > aren't necessarily the kinds of conversations that can be resolved.
> >
> > The language issue always comes up.  Dale just brought up the fact 
> 
> > that we use a lot of "insider" language in this group, and that can
>  
> > push newcomers away.  That's definitely true, and we should all  
> > watch that better.  But we have also always had to deal with the  
> > fact that the different streams of practice NCDD brings together  
> > (intergroup dialogue, deliberative democracy, conflict resolution, 
> 
> > organization development, whole system change, etc.) all have their
>  
> > own special sets of terms.  I feel that we have been developing  
> > something of a common language these last few years, but then I  
> > notice that people are creating more and more new terms to describe
>  
> > this work, like "transpartisan," "citizen-centered," "collaborative
>  
> > governance," and "democracy 2.0."  So I have come to realize that  
> > the idea of creating a common language is more of an ongoing  
> > process than an achievable goal.  (Incidentally, although it's  
> > important for our community to discuss the nitty-gritty amongst  
> > ourselves, this conversation has also made me wonder if we  
> > shouldn't be focusing our energies on simplifying our language and 
> 
> > making it more accessible to those outside of this community,  
> > rather than talking about the need for new categories and terms.)
> >
> > The partisan issue also always comes around.  Why is it so  
> > challenging to get conservatives involved in this community, and to
>  
> > get them to the table?  Are D&D inherently progressive topics?  I  
> > could go on and on.
> >
> > Another issue that comes up again and again is the need to be able 
> 
> > to differentiate from all of the approaches out there. 56 dialogue 
> 
> > and deliberation methods are listed and described in NCDD's  
> > Learning Exchange (www.thataway.org/exchange/meta_categories.php? 
> > mcid=51&last_selection=meta_category), and 154 methods and tools  
> > are listed and described in our "participatory practices category  
> > (www.thataway.org/exchange/meta_categories.php? 
> > mcid=52&last_selection=meta_category).
> >
> > In the U.S. more than in other countries, people tend to trademark 
> 
> > a specific approach, and then they tend to hold it in higher esteem
>  
> > than all other approaches, emphasizing how it's different from and 
> 
> > better than "typical" dialogue methods or "typical" deliberation  
> > methods. Often, creators of methods will not admit the weaknesses  
> > of those methods, or clearly articulate when the use of their  
> > method is not the best choice (instead, they'll claim that their  
> > method can be adapted to any situation).
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===

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