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NCDD-DISCUSSION  August 2007, Week 5

NCDD-DISCUSSION August 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Infrastructure discussion

From:

Kenoli Oleari <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Kenoli Oleari <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:23:28 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (341 lines)

This is the second email alluding to the fact that everyone is not  
knowledgeable about a lot of the process discussed on this list.  I  
will be more aware of this.

I would also like to recommend a book.  It is called "Future Search  
in School District Change," and is an anthology of experience using  
these types of methodology in over 20 school districts.  In each  
case, as well as describing the process, consultants went back years  
later and interviewed people in the district about their experience  
and how it had affected them over time.

It explicitly refers to the use of future search but the principles  
and experience hold regardless of methodology.  Future search is an  
interesting case and something that it might be useful for people to  
look into as Marv Weisbord, an originator of future search, is a key  
figure in the development of our understanding of organizational  
change over the las 5 decades and clearly documents the roots and  
reasons for each element in the development of his work.  His book  
"Productive Workplaces," was just voted one of the top two most  
important works of all time in organization development by the  
Organization Development Network and is extremely readable.  It is  
used in most college level OD courses, though Marv himself is not an  
academician.

For an encycopedic overview of co-intelligent process and links to  
sources on many of the processes we refer to here, I highly recommend  
Tom Atlle's web site at

http://www.co-intelligence.org/

Check out Dynamic Facilitation and the Wisdom Council at:

http://tobe.net

Thanks for everyone's participation.

--Kenoli

On Aug 30, 2007, at 2:59 PM, Steven M wrote:

> hi everyone. I normally try not to post more than once a day, given  
> our
> informal limits here. However, obviously this is a very energetic
> discussion here, so I wanted to post again. Bill, thanks so much for
> your incisive email. you really have drawn the connection between
> theory and practice.
>
> Your description of the disenfranchised, and those who are not given
> the inherent tools of communication and organization, such as digital
> tools, etc., is extremely hard-hitting. I think we are now getting to
> the real heart and core of deliberative issues. By that I mean not  
> just
> the emotional core, but the real core of some  gritty nuts-and-bolts
> decisions, working through difficult issues, but also the area which
> makes the difference between some event which people may go to and
> forget, and events which really affect their  lives.
>
> Bill, you referred to an issue of extreme importance and intensity;  
> use
> of educational resources and processes in public schools of  
> Washington,
> DC, which is a perfect example of our core issues, as DC is a city of
> inspiration to all of us, yet also one where many local social issues
> remain acutely in flux. I think part of the reason for our issues was
> alluded to in your email in a sense. Basically we are now encountering
> the divide between ideals and experience. Your reference to your work
> in DC public schools is especially valuable, especially in regards to
> how you made deliberative work more relevant there.
>
> However, it also raises another important point; the divide between  
> the
> ideas which we are now discussing here, and the sets of data which  
> each
> of us may be in possession of.  Suppose I told you that some of us  
> here
> have little idea or conception about how the methods which you mention
> would be applied in a setting such as DC schools. Suppose I told you
> further that some of us have little idea of how deliberative methods
> are or can be applied to make that type of decision in a real  
> political
> and community decisions. that might surprise you. However, though I
> can't speak for anyone else, I can tell you that my own empirical data
> on this in fact is rather low, and I can use some further input on  
> this
> on current experiences and data. So I just wanted to pop in and say
> that, just to point out some building block which we could use, but
> also to identify a very important point. By responding to some of the
> critical issues being raised here with a reference to your own  
> concrete
> experiences, you have reminded us just how crucial a role actual
> experience plays in any formation of deliberative ideals. So I
> appreciate that.
>
> Another thing you have reminded us is just how rarely discussions or
> debates of societal problems come down ideology. The issues which the
> two wings, left and right, most often fixate on and wrangle over are
> simply an obvious point to anyone really working on an issue, and  
> often
> are the most trivial part of the process. What matters most is the  
> real
> goals of how we most get to the heart of serving our communities and
> citizens, and of making sure they acquire the resources and services
> they need to aspire, prosper and succeed.
>
> What I would like to ask is, on a rather mundane level, whether you
> have any documentation of how these deliberations which you ran
> actually functioned to make decisions or actions in these DC school
> settings? Presumably I could find numerous materials depicting policy
> decisions, and some programs and events. however, I'm not so sure that
> one can easily find documents and materials describing the process
> itself. So anything you could point me to would be much  
> appreciated. By
> the way, hope itís ok to occasionally return matters to such a basic
> level. however, as you may have noticed, if there sometimes is a place
> to express a need for basic evidence or data, and the need can best be
> highlighted by having one person here plead ignorance, then I'm happy
> to be that person. :-) I really appreciate the discussion going on
> here, and the feeling which we can have of simultaneously delving into
> the deepest areas of deliberative ideas, and also engaging in basic
> education about some of the most basic areas as well. Thanks very much
> for all your help.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> --- Bill Potapchuk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Kenoli:
>>
>> I always find it interesting that in a community where we preach the
>> value of finding common ground . . . we often draw fine differences
>> between our work and that of others in the field (myself included.)
>> Sometimes we even characterize the work of others with little or no
>> direct knowledge of their work.  Sometimes we even impeach their
>> motives or question their values by extracting meaning from the thin
>> communication vehicle of an email.
>>
>> I know I've been challenging conventional wisdom for my entire career
>> and my work has helped shift traditional relationships in profound
>> ways.  I'm not sure that anything I said would suggest that I am an
>> apologist for the status quo.  So I would appreciate being responded
>> to on the specifics of what I said, and request that as a groundrule.
>>
>> I agree, predictability in planning cuts both ways -- sometimes it
>> serves the needs of the powerful and sometimes the needs of the
>> powerless -- therefore, I suggest, we should be careful which
>> situation we are entering.  When we uniformly create processes that
>> foster unpredictability and when underlying power relationships have
>> not changed, we can sometimes serve the interests of the powerful.
>>
>> One of the reasons I struggle with the predictability question is
>> that I find that the more organic the process the more likely it is
>> to change over time -- almost by definition.  People drop in and drop
>> out, various perspectives in a community can be represented in
>> different ways, or not represented at all.  Further, there is
>> significant evidence that the patterns of participation in processes
>> often do not reflect the demographics in communities.  Older people
>> of means -- and in many places, homeowners -- are often
>> overrepresented.  Younger persons, persons of color, persons of
>> lesser means, tenants, and persons who do not speak the dominant
>> language are often underrepresented.  I know in the community where I
>> do much of my work, Washington DC, there is great skepticism around
>> any kind of process in some communities because there is a
>> decades-long history of being disenfranchised in community processes
>> where there was little but lip service to authentic participation.
>> Residents have been told so many times that this new process is
>> better, smarter, more effective, more meaningful, and more authentic
>> -- and then learn they were lied to -- that much of their civic
>> behavior is defensive, cynical, and logical.  Further, one or two
>> good processes does not change that history.
>>
>> When we speak about transforming fundamental power relationships, it
>> is important to recognize that in most situations, the powerful are
>> better organized than the powerless.  They have staff, resources,
>> expertise, and time.  They are on one side of the digital divide.
>> The powerless are often not as well organized, do not have as much
>> access to resources or expertise.  They are often on the other side
>> of the digital divide.  When we utilize ad hoc processes of any kind,
>> the embedded power relationships are often replicated.  We do not
>> change the fact that the Mayor or the head of the Chamber go back to
>> an office with technology and staff and resources . . . and a
>> community resident may go back to a community without a community
>> organization and a home that perhaps, does not have a computer or
>> broadband.
>>
>> Therefore, I think those of us who believe in participatory processes
>> need to be humble about how much our work can fundamentally transform
>> power relationships and how much we can systematically alter historic
>> patterns of participation.  This leads back to the power we think an
>> ad hoc, organically developed group should have.  I do not think
>> there are easy answers to this challenge, rather, I believe, we need
>> to fully understand the context as we design, develop, manage, and
>> advocate for different processes.
>>
>> I tend to work in large, semi-functional systems.  Right now my major
>> focus is DC Public Schools.  It is very hard to create a process that
>> involves persons from 146 schools, the entire community, and all of
>> the different stakeholders.  How we stage, sequence, and manage
>> different kinds of meetings and convenings is critical to our overall
>> success.  And because of deep distrust that pervades many
>> relationships in the system, addressing the question of the role of
>> those not in a given meeting or convening or dialogue is critical.
>>
>> I will also note Kenoli, that I think your observations of
>> AmericaSpeaks are dead wrong.  There is deep commitment to and real
>> results in engaging decisionmakers and the process is intentionally
>> anything but a focus group model.  I urge you to learn more.
>>
>>
>> Finally, having just read Daniel's email and Kenoli's response
>> questioning who we -- the NCDD community -- really are, allow me to
>> share my underlying frames.  I think of my -- perhaps our work -- as
>> focused on participatory (urban) governance and community building.
>> We need, I believe, to build stronger communities and dialogue is one
>> of a number of important ways to build community.  To use some of
>> Daniel's words, when we worship together, work together, hang out at
>> "third places" together, etc. etc., we build community and
>> connection.  I love that Robert Putnam's initial work in Italy talks
>> about communities that sing together.
>>
>> Participatory governance, for me, creates sustained deeply democratic
>> forums for authentic engagement and decision-making that
>> fundamentally transform who decides in a community.  Dialogue,
>> deliberation, consensus building, conflict resolution, and
>> collaborative processes are the backbone of effective participatory
>> governance processes. Effective participatory governance blends
>> representative, stakeholder, and direct democracy models.
>>
>> With my personal frame, D and D are necessary but not sufficient for
>> the work I do.
>>
>> A longer email than I have written in months . . .
>>
>> Best to all . . . bill
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NCDD Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kenoli
>> Oleari
>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:46 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [NCDD-LIST] Infrastructure discussion
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 10:45 AM, Bill Potapchuk wrote:
>>
>>> Kenoli and others:
>>>
>>> I think it is important to differentiate between a pre-ordained
>>> process and having prior plans.  If anytime a group of people gets
>>
>>> together, they can throw out all previous plans, we would have
>>> complete chaos, an inability to pursue sustained strategies, and a
>>
>>> lack of predictability for many partners, often a key to attracting
>>
>>> human and financial investment.
>>
>> There a bunch of assumptions and assertions here.  By necessity, we
>> always to start from where we left off.  Good process provides an
>> opportunity to make this more effective.  On the other hand, we do
>> need to be willing to move where the group needs to move, even if it
>>
>> is in a new direction.  Given the way public process is done today, I
>>
>> think your prediction of allowing for this is probably accurate.  On
>>
>> the other hand, a group that has done good work to build a solid
>> foundation with each other, is likely to be able to manage major
>> changes in direction effectively.
>>
>> One of the things that characterizes  the way things are currently
>> done is that those that desire predictability, often end up being
>> overly influential, using this as a club to control dissenting voices
>>
>> or process they don't feel comfortable with.  Remember, what we are
>> talking about here is process that shifts these traditional
>> relationships.
>>
>>> I think this is one of the challenges of this work . . . in part
>>> because some plans are designed to have longevity in order to
>>> prevent powerful interests from subverting plans when they exercise
>>
>>> their political power.  It also provides due process protections
>>> for those not in the room.
>>>
>>> Just think of where this conversation started, bridges.  Imagine
>>> the best process you can think of . . . and that it led to a
>>> decision to rebuild and expand the bridge.  Can next year's process
>>
>>> rescind this decision because that is the energy and focus of the
>>> group now in the room?
>>
>> Why not?  In today's world, we control possibilities like this
>> because we live in an adversarial environment where people might take
>>
>> advantage of an opening to change things fundamentally to throw a
>> monkey wrench in the works.  In a Context where people hold broad
>> ownership and have built their choices together from the ground up,
>> this is unlikely to happen and likely to be well managed if it does.
>>
>>> I sometimes think that one historical aspect of our work --
>>> democratizing public decision making as civic activists railed
>>> against smoke-filled backrooms has sometimes turned into smoke-free
>>
>>> dialogue processes which individuals may or may not be know about,
>>
>>> may or may not be able to join, whose organizers may or may not
>>> follow any formal public notice requirements yet whose organizers
>>> want the participants in the process to be able to make all
>>> decisions without limitations.  That too is dangerous, in my mind.
>>
>> What's critical, and what is central to all the work I do, is to not
>>
>> start until all the voices that need to be present are present.  If
>> we follow this rule of full inclusion, we do a lot to mitigate this
>> concern.
>>
>>> In defense of the AmericaSpeaks model, it is possible to generate
>>> alternatives from the participants by creating time in the process
>>
>>> for that task and using the computers to capture the ideas,
>>> forwarding them to the theme team, which then generates
>>> alternatives drawn from the table discussions.  Having been a part
>>
>>> of several AmericaSpeaks events in DC, I can report that there are
>>
>>> always pressures to add more to the agenda, compress the creative
>>
> === message truncated ===



Kenoli Oleari
1801 Fairview Street
Berkeley, CA  94703
Neighborhood Assemblies Network
510-601-8217, [log in to unmask]
http://www.sfnan.org, http://www.horizonsofchange.com

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February 2010, Week 1
January 2010, Week 5
January 2010, Week 4
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January 2010, Week 2
January 2010, Week 1
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November 2009, Week 5
November 2009, Week 4
November 2009, Week 3
November 2009, Week 2
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October 2009, Week 2
October 2009, Week 1
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November 2008, Week 1
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October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
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April 2008, Week 3
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April 2008, Week 1
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March 2008, Week 2
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February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3

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