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NCDD-DISCUSSION  August 2007, Week 4

NCDD-DISCUSSION August 2007, Week 4

Subject:

Re: response to Rosa and blind spots

From:

Rosa Zubizarreta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Rosa Zubizarreta <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:09:49 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (207 lines)

Judy, I hear you don't think there is a need for a third term.  I wish I
felt the same! It would make things much simpler... :-)

I guess what I'd like to say, and feel heard about, is that this is not
something I've come to lightly... Only after being told repeatedly that what
we do is "not dialogue" because people end up converging (even though it
happens in a natural and emergent manner)... and also that it's "not
deliberation" because we proceed in a creative and non-linear manner (even
though we end up with an extremely thorough and comprehensive exploration of
the practical issue at hand)... and finding over and over that it gets "left
off the map" because there's no "neat box" to hold it in!

That's why I've begun to think more and more, that it can be helpful to
create further distinctions. (That's also part of the natural evolution of
any field, no?)  

So anyway, I'm wanting to hear more about what your concerns might be,
beyond "there's no need for it" or "it will confuse the issue" (instead of
clarifying it, which is my intention.) I do want to reassure you and others
that I'm certainly not proposing that we change the name "NCDD"! Instead, my
"solution" is that we recognize that there is a "subset" of the broad arena
of deliberation, that could be termed "creative deliberation"; similarly,
there is a "subset" of the the broad arena of dialogue, that could be termed
"practical dialogue".

And, it just so happens that these two "subsets" are very much alike... So
for me, the way I work, it just doesn't fit to say that I am first "engaging
in dialogue" and then "moving into deliberation". My experience is that I am
doing something else, all the way along. This "something else" has features
of both, but it is much better described by the term "creative deliberation"
or "practical dialogue" -- take your pick; either works for me.

A different yet related point: it might be helpful for us to be more
explicit about the many different kinds of dialogue that exist. I have great
admiration for David Bohm and his work. Still, as someone who grew up with
the tradition of Paulo Freire and his approach to dialogue, I get pretty
frustrated with the recurring arguments on the listserve that seem to imply
that Bohmian dialogue is the only valid form.

The larger point here, is that I think we need to make an ongoing effort to
map out our field in a way that is inclusive, by allowing space for and
naming the many different forms of practice that exist. If we believe in
evolution, that may mean that we need to modify the map from time to time.
While that may have some downsides to it, I also see it as an inherent part
of an ongoing creative and evolutionary process.

And, as we do this, it would also be great if we can point out the
relationships and interconnections between the different practices, as well
as the differentiations! 'Cause I firmly believe that we are all related--

With all best wishes,

Rosa



On 8/26/07 6:31 AM, "Judy O'Brien" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Rosa,
> Thanks for your contribution.  I think the D & D group often takes simple
> ideas and makes them way too complicated and every now and then, it's
> necessary to stop and take a look at our blind spots born of our own
> process.  And, I don't think there's a need for a third term.
> 
> I think many of use both dialogue and deliberation in our practice.  This
> "both...and" is a kind of third way in that it honors the need for both
> divergent conversation and convergent conversation.  There's a need often in
> group situations to gain the "big view", to listen deeply, to seek unity, a
> unity that doesn't dissolve diversity but honors it as an aspect of the
> whole.  Without divergent conversation, we don't have an opportunity to
> loosen our grip on the ego driven opinions that thwart real meaningful
> conversation.  Without divergence we lack perspective.  Yet, without
> convergence, there is no action.  The big view doesn't get stepped down into
> real life in a pragmatic, deliberative way.
> 
> We seem to be divided in this group down the lines of dialogue or
> deliberation, but it seemes to me we need both. And I guess I have stayed a
> member of the group because I recognize that while I lean towards a more
> divergent inclination, I have much to learn from my convergent associates.
> So, in the spirit of "both...and", let's not confuse the issue with a third
> term.
> Judy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rosa Zubizarreta" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [NCDD-LIST] Infrastructure discussion
> 
> 
> Hi Landon, Bill, Ken, and others...
> 
> Landon, I very much appreciate your point about the creative possibilities
> that can emerge from a commitment to listen deeply to the "minority voices",
> even a "minority of one". I also share the concern that many of the
> processes used in mainstream D&D practice overemphasize things like
> "dot-voting", "theme selection', pre-selected alternative scenarios, etc.,
> and that this over-reliance on logic and management can negatively impact
> outcomes.
> 
> I'd like to add a further point. It seems to me that there is a "blind spot"
> currently in the D&D field, which has to do with the way in which 'dialogue'
> and 'deliberation' are defined. It seems to me that what you described as
> "consensus" tends to fall into the 'deliberation' category, which is also
> the one associated with 'getting practical results'. In contrast, 'dialogue'
> tends to be reserved for situations where "generating greater inter-group
> understanding" is the goal, and it is generally not seen as being
> particularly useful for situations where a practical outcome is needed --
> except maybe in an "initial" phase.
> 
> It seems to me that we may need a third term for what you are pointing to --
> processes that are creative, non-linear, and welcome the divergence of
> listening deeply to every voice -- and yet lead to practical and thorough
> results that include effective shared action. One possible term for this
> third option could be "creative deliberation". Another might be "practical
> dialogue". Or, you can call it whatever you want -- what's important to me,
> is that there is a "something" here, that is too often overlooked.
> 
> I am not yet familiar with Ken's "Structured Dialogic Design", and therefore
> don't know to what extent it would fit into this third category, but there
> are a few other approaches that do fit the bill very well. One is Jim
> Rough's Dynamic Facilitation, sometimes known as the "choice-creating
> process". Another is Jeff Conklin's Dialogue Mapping. (More information
> about these kinds of processes is available at the draft version of my
> website at http://www.diapraxis.com/materials.html)
> 
> Bill, here is my scenario of some places in which this third approach could
> be useful:
> 
>>         It is August 2007, Thunder City Mayor, Jane Daley, and her
>> advisors
>> agree that the Thunder City I-99 bridge needs to be rebuilt and it needs
>> to be
>> expanded from four to six lanes to deal with congestion and serve as a
>> economic development tool.  Given the recent bridge collapse in Minnesota,
>> this project now takes precedence over a half dozen competing projects in
>> the
>> city.  They also know that unless they develop an effective advocacy
>> campaign,
>> the bridge will never get funded to be rebuilt. An advocacy campaign that
>> starts in 2007 means construction $$ will likely not flow until 2012, at
>> the
>> earliest.
>>         Mayor Daley starts holding meetings with the business community
>> to
>> rally support for the bridge.  Her staff also drives an active media
>> campaign
>> to gain support.  Letters to the editor start piling in, pro and con.
>> Some
>> raise the issues of relocating poor communities of color and oppose the
>> bridge.  Neighborhood and civil rights groups start to organize.  Local
>> pro-transit and smart growth groups start to organize, insisting that the
>> bridge does not need to be expanded, transit options need to be expanded.
>> During this time frame, Mayor Daley gets the Congressional delegation to
>> support the bridge reconstruction.  They tell her that bridges are in
>> because
>> of the collapse and this should be easy to fund.
>>         Thunder City Area Council of Governments starts to hold hearings
>> on
>> the regional transportation improvement plan, and the I99 bridge is a part
>> of
>> the discussion.  More pro and con at a variety of public meetings.
> 
> At this point, a proactive group of "third way" d&d practitioners organize a
> Creative Insight Council. They bring together a microcosm of people from all
> "sides" of the issue, with the facilitation support to engage in a creative
> exploration together. The results of this council are disseminated widely,
> to point out that the issue is more complex that simple "pro" or "con", and
> that creative solutions ARE possible.
> 
> (For one example of this kind of facilitated microcosm, on a larger scale
> with regard to a divisive national issue, see
> http://www.co-intelligence.org/S-Canadaadvrsariesdream.html)
> 
> 
>>         Fast forward to late 2008.  Mayor Daley wins.  The neighborhood,
>> civil rights, pro-transit and smart growth groups all feel burned.  Some
>> olive
>> branches were extended to all of them . . . but the bridge is still
>> planned to
>> be built.  The Chamber, Board of Trade, and the economic development
>> community
>> declare victory.
> 
> The mayor may still win, in spite of the success of the creative insight
> council in pointing to creative alternatives. But if so, my sense is that
> the "olive branches" would be more substantial, as the level of the public
> dialogue about the issues would be more sophisticated and beyond a simple
> "pro" and "con".
> 
> "Third way" approaches could continue to be used at any point further
> downstream in your scenario, though the applications would look different.
> I'm focusing on the above intervention, as the earlier in the process you
> are, the more potential leverage for fundamental change.
> 
> With all best wishes,
> 
> Rosa
> 
> **********
> 
> Rosa Zubizarreta, M.A.
> 
> Diapraxis: Facilitating Creative Collaboration
> Organization Development ? Community Engagement
> Great Barrington, MA
> 

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